Talk:The Phantom publications in Italy
My essay on the Italian publications is a list that needs to be completed. And I had some difficulties with the contents “Anthology appearances”; it is not put in the correct order of presentation. Thanks to correct it. Alain.171.18.2.101 15:51, 22 December 2008 (CET)
- It is not easy to use the proper meaning of words when you're not yourself English native…In an inappropriately way, I wrote "essay" when I just wanted to mean "attempt" (a first try). I guess the word "essay" is rather to reserve to a more serious work like a detailed study on a very precise subject…To come back on the Italian publications, almost all the titles are simply "L'uomo mascherato". At the time being, I have rather mentioned the titles of collections and/or the names of editors, so it is an incorrect manner when compared to the other similar articles… However, with only the main title, and in front of a specific issue (which can have any mention of year), it sometimes seems hard for a foreigner collector (as I am, being from France…) to find which series is really concerned. Maybe we could indicate the real titles "L'uomo mascherato" but still with a separate column for the editors' names? At least as long as individual articles are not yet in line for each series…? I'd like to read some advices in this regard. Alain. 171.18.2.101 10:07, 23 December 2008 (CET)
- I agree that we need to do something to make it easier to separate the different series. For me as a foreigner it is difficult to make sense out of the French, Italian and Spanish comic series and how they were named. I don't understand the use of "collections". What does it mean? I have for example issues with the title Avventure Americane – Serie Cronologica – Phantom – L'uomo Mascherato on the cover. Which part of this is the actual name of the comic book? Phantom is written in biggest letters, so that is what I believe is the real title. Andreas 15:36, 25 December 2008 (CET)
- I have often used the word "Collection" (a global class or a family of similar sets or items) but it is probably inappropriate because the word "series" is currently more suited. In Italian there are the words "collana" and "serie". Same thing in French with the words "collection" and "serie". The Spada's series cited (59 issues in 1972 - 1973) is in fact the final part of the "Avventure Americane" issues which began in 1962 but it can also be considered as a series of its own. As you say,the word "Phantom" being bigger than the words "L'Uomo Mascherato", I also think it is better to consider that "Phantom" is the real title of this particular segment of the series. By the way, I have today added in the Italian Publications list the newspapers in which "The Phantom" appeared. Strangely they were just a few ones when the comic-books series were much more numbered...(Best wishes for a happy new year 2009).Alain.82.227.36.122 23:09, 1 January 2009 (CET)
- I agree that we need to do something to make it easier to separate the different series. For me as a foreigner it is difficult to make sense out of the French, Italian and Spanish comic series and how they were named. I don't understand the use of "collections". What does it mean? I have for example issues with the title Avventure Americane – Serie Cronologica – Phantom – L'uomo Mascherato on the cover. Which part of this is the actual name of the comic book? Phantom is written in biggest letters, so that is what I believe is the real title. Andreas 15:36, 25 December 2008 (CET)
Publications names
Recently, L'Uomo Mascherato 122 (Avventure americane/Spada) 122 was created, apparently because there already exists L'Uomo Mascherato 122 (Avventure americane/Spada), which is a redirection. I think it would be good if it is determined what the different Italian publications should be called and which letters that should be capitalized. Thereafter making the according changes. Karl MAN 10:24, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- I agree, and have been thinking about what would be the best way to name them. Here are some suggestions:
- Avventure americane - for the 1959-61 series published by La Freccia
- Avventure americane – L'Uomo Mascherato - for the 1962-67 series
- Avventure americane nuova serie – L'Uomo Mascherato - for the 1967-71 series
- Avventure americane terza serie – L'Uomo Mascherato - for the 1971-72 series (I'm not 100% sure about this, I need to see more covers from this series. I don't know if terza serie was offical or just an informal name)
- And then there's the final 1972-80 series... from what I can tell from the covers, the complete title should be:
- Avventure Americane – Serie Cronologica – Phantom – L'Uomo Mascherato
- That's one heck of a long title, but the current situation where the issues are named Phantom L'uomo mascherato (Serie Cronologica) isn't good either, because parenthesis ( ) should be reserved for disambiguation information only, and not any parts of the actual title. Andreas 10:49, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- My initial intention was to name “L’Uomo Mascherato 122 (Avventure americane/Spada)” – the one with “The Founding of the Jungle Patrol” story – like the previous issues of the series, but something unusual happens and another number 122 has been generated at the end, probably because another one article “L'Uomo mascherato 122 (Avventure americane/Spada, Nuova Serie)” was already on line. . It looks a little bit strange, normally it would not have to occur for the latter has a slightly different name (the “Nuova Serie” mention) but it was like if the computer couldn’t detect the difference between the two titles… I also note that parenthesis should be reserved for disambiguation information and not any parts of the actual title and so a lot of titles need to be retaken. Going to see too if the project of new naming is ok with the various series as it is an important matter and the Andreas project seems to be a very good basis for the Italian publications Alain03 11:32, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- As far as I know L'Uomo mascherato 122 (Avventure americane/Spada, Nuova Serie), (by the way, should it perhaps have a capital M?) was previuosly named L'Uomo Mascherato 122 (Avventure americane/Spada) and when it was moved, a redirection from the old title was created automatically. I might add that, in my opinion, when cover articles are created, they should have the full name of the issue article of whom they are named for, with the specifying information and all, and then "cover" will be put at the end. This to not confuse them with each others, as the risk of getting two cover articles with the same name with Italian covers is about the same as getting two issue articles with the same name. Karl MAN 11:47, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
- As Alain has pointed out to me, Fratelli Spada used several series that had previously been used by La Freccia, but with new numbering. So my revised proposal would be:
- Avventure americane – L'Uomo Mascherato (La Freccia) - for the 1959-61 series published by La Freccia
- Avventure americane – L'Uomo Mascherato (Fratelli Spada) - for the 1962-67 series
- Avventure americane nuova serie – L'Uomo Mascherato - for the 1967-71 series, possibly with Grandi avventure – L'Uomo Mascherato for #180-206
- As Alain has also pointed out, the 1972-80 series changed title several times, i.e.:
- Avventure Americane terza serie – L'Uomo Mascherato - for #1-32 (not sure about the title terza here, was it official or informal?)
- Avventure Americane – Serie Cronologica – Phantom – L'Uomo Mascherato - for #33/Cronologica #1 and onwards
- Avventure Americane – Phantom – L'Uomo Mascherato - for #60 and onwards
- The above is for the naming of individual issues, but I propose we have only one category and one main article (L'Uomo Mascherato (Fratelli Spada)) for all Fratelli Spada issues above, since they were essentially the same publication that restarted. Possibly this article/category should also include Avventure americane in the title.
- And besides the main series there's also:
- I Classici dell'Avventura – L'Uomo Mascherato (La Freccia) (1961)
- I Classici dell'Avventura – L'Uomo Mascherato (Fratelli Spada) (1962-67)
- Super Albo – L'Uomo Mascherato (La Freccia) (1960-61)
- Super Albo – L'Uomo Mascherato (Fratelli Spada) (1962-67)
- Note that I have placed the titles Avventure americane / I Classici dell'Avventura / Super Albo first in all cases, since those titles were the "main" titles that appeared on every issue. Since the Phantom didn't appear in every issue, I have interpreted L'Uomo Mascherato as a secondary title, even though most fans would refer to it first.
- Phew! Andreas 09:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
- Some of these changes has been done, but not with Super Albo, which has made me do perhaps some mistakes when I recently tried to get a uniform name for the cover articles. These suggestions ias, however, good and I will immediately implement those that not already have been implemented. (In normal cases, I would have waited, but most of these suggestions have already been implemented without any objections, which I in this case will take as an acceptance of everything. Karl MAN 21:02, 2 February 2011 (CET)
I have now made some edits at this article, but the I Classici dell'Avventura already have an article, so I reverted that edit in order not to break any links. Since I don't speak Italian, I don't know what titles it is that are correct and Italian. (I remember vaguely a discussion some years ago where it was pointed out that in French, capital letters were used only for names, that had an importance when writing story titles, there might be som similar thing in Italian, that capital letters are only used for names, or in the begining of a title.).
It would be great if someone could comment on this. Karl MAN 21:24, 2 February 2011 (CET)