PhantomWiki:Bandar Village
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Welcome to PhantomWiki's own Bandar Village! Here is the place to have discussions and put up question that are too general to be posted on any talk page. Please note that discussions concerning individual articles are to be hold in that article's talk page.
When starting a new discussion, please add it at the bottom of the page, and use a valid title.
As always when on PhantomWiki, remember to keep a friendly tone, and to always assume good faith.
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Frew's Phantom Active Era's
With Frew having released their Phantom Generations poster, I'm wondering if we should add these years to each Phantom's "Active Years" list on their respective pages? Joey pajamas (talk) 02:48, 22 July 2023 (CEST)
- Apparently the years are taken from Team Fantomen's years. I don't know if this means that Frew always follows TF's version or that Weigel just used the most comprehensive overview of years that was available. Andreas (talk) 12:13, 22 July 2023 (CEST)
Related stories vs Templates
I see in this page and others in the Temple of the Gods series the reference to the other parts. Should they not be in the "Preceded by" and "Followed by" boxes? I see that the Temple of the Gods story, with its six parts, should be set up like the Phantom legends/The Heart of Darkness story, instead of having "Related stories" on each of the six individual pages. Is there any good reason why not to do this?
- Yes, the reason is what that option isn't used for Egmont stories. See Related stories. Delboj (talk) 16:17, 1 December 2023 (CET)
- Sorry, is your "Related stories" meant to be a link?
- I still don't understand why that option is not used for Egmont stories? Mars (talk) 13:38, 02 December 2023 (AEST)
- I am not sure why that option isn't used for Egmont stories. "Related stories" isn't link, you can find it line before reprints. Delboj (talk) 12:26, 2 December 2023 (CET)
- I'm not entirely sure, but I think it's because Phantom legends/The Heart of Darkness is written as one, long continuous, story while the Temple of the Gods series are full stories that is "just" part of a bigger arc. --MiGi (talk) 07:33, 3 December 2023 (CET)
- Even if it is "just" part of a bigger arc, it may be helpful to have a single reference page for each of those "bigger arcs". I would like to see a page with each Frew issue number and stories (a much bigger project, I know) and I think the multi-part stories would also be better off. After all, if the other "parts" are related, why not have them in "Preceded by" and "Followed by" and have a page with all of them? If they are not so closely related, why list them at all?
- The "Preceded by" and "Followed by" in newspaper strip stories shows the stories that are chronologically published before and after, it has nothing to do with storyline connections (although the newpaper strip stories are implied to follow each other). If we would use this for Team Fantomen stories, it would not show other parts of the Temple of the Gods saga there, as they were published many issues apart. "Related stories" is the subheading used to show storyline connections, even when the stories are not published in direct sequence or even take place directly after each other. It's maybe not the best solution, but if we add "Preceded by" and "Followed by" to the comic book story template, it's not going to have the effect you want; the story preceding "Temple of the Gods, Part 3: The Secret Sect" would be "Jonathon Wild, Part 2: Sentenced to Hang" and the following story would be "Diana's Crisis, Part 5: Night of the Phantoms". "Heart of Darkness" has it's own template not because it's connected stories but because it was originally published as a separate comic title ("Fantomenlegender" instead of "Fantomen"). We could do something better for longer storylines such as Temple of the Gods or the Diana/Chatu series, but they both jumped between newspaper stories and comic book spinoff stories so they should keep their respective Newspaper story and Comic book story templates. And so far the solution is the subheading Related stories. Andreas (talk) 04:34, 4 December 2023 (CET)
- I'd like to add that one of the reasons we don't show which Team Fantomen stories were published chronologically before/after is that these stories are not necessarily taking place in the order they are published. The above example shows that three separate multipart storylines were mixed up! This is not only unlike newspaper stories but also most traditional US comic book stories from any publisher with any hero. A typical US comic book enlists a creative team for a longer run and they make stories that are set after each other. Team Fantomen has a different approach and the storyline of one story can be picked up many issues later; while other storylines have been published in between those parts. "Preceded by" and "Followed by" would only confuse those who haven't read these stories and don't understand why they should read "Diana's Crisis, Part 5: Night of the Phantoms" after "Temple of the Gods, Part 3: The Secret Sect" (which of course, they shouldn't!) Andreas (talk) 04:56, 4 December 2023 (CET)
- While I now understand (thank you for explaining, Andreas!) and that makes sense (I hadn't thought of that), I have just come across the Phantom by Gaslight story... stories? arc?? In particular, I saw Episode 2 today. In that page, and for that series, the "Preceded by" and "Followed by" are the next stories in the arc/series, even though the were not published sequentially (although it does look like they were/are published chronologically). On that page is the preceding and the following stories, but it also has the publication it first appeared in (and shows reprints, of course). This seems to overcome the confuse you identified, Andreas, so that a reader would not be encouraged to read adjacent publications which have nothing to do with the story, but could find the adjacent episodes by being pointed to that page of that story which shows the printings it appeared in.
- I think, perhaps, because there is (as there should be) a separation between the publication and the story, that the story would make sense to link to the related stories in the text box for the story. Andreas, you identified that the publication should link to next publication, which may be unrelated to the story, but that would be on the publication page, not the story page. Temple of the Gods 3 should point to Temple of the Gods 2 and 4 while containing "First published in Fantomen 4/2006" (which it has), but Fantomen 4/2006 should point to 3/2006 and 5/2006, which may have unrelated stories. I don't think it is confusing. I think that would be more helpful for readers. Mars (talk) 01:39, 7 December 2023 (CET)
- I still believe that if we add Preceded by/Followed by to the regular comic book story template, it would point to the stories (not issues) published before and after. If not, how do we deal with stories outside of the Temple of the Gods storyline? Those who are only one-shots and have no connected stories plot-wise? And again, many Team Fantomen stories are sequels to newspaper stories, but i maintain that the only logical Preceded by/Followed by for newspaper stories are those who are published directly before/after in newspapers. Also, not even the Temple of the Gods stories take place in direct sequence. There is obviously a big gap to the latest (last?) Sunday story, with several stories implied to take place in the meantime. The Temple of the Gods storyline goes from daily stories to Team Fantomen stories to a Sunday story. If we make a separate navigation template for Temple of the Gods stories it should be in addition to the existing templates, and not replace them. How about that compromise? Andreas (talk) 09:41, 8 December 2023 (CET)
- I am understanding some of the issues here, especially in relation to the dailies/Sundays. I think you are right that it is not a good idea to replace the template, but it may be a good idea to add to it. (Can that be done, or does it need to be an additional template?) I think there should be a way for readers to see the complete/directly related stories. "The Bandar Idol", for example, leads into "The Search For Mu", but they were not published sequentially. In Fantomen those two stories were published seven issues apart and in Frew they were four issues apart. Maybe a "Preceding/Following issue" and a "Preceding/Following story" in the template would work? In Phantom by Gaslight Chapter 2 the "Preceded by" and "Followed by" are the stories before and after, even though they did not appear in the adjacent issues. (NB I know it was a few years ago, but a very well regarded contributor of this wiki added the Preceded by Chapter 1 and Followed by Chapter 3 on that page ;) it was you, Andreas - I think you had the same idea then that I have now! There should be a way to link the story in the template without losing or replacing the link to issues, and there must be a better way than using headings down the page.) Mars (talk) 01:54, 14 December 2023 (CET)
- I still believe that if we add Preceded by/Followed by to the regular comic book story template, it would point to the stories (not issues) published before and after. If not, how do we deal with stories outside of the Temple of the Gods storyline? Those who are only one-shots and have no connected stories plot-wise? And again, many Team Fantomen stories are sequels to newspaper stories, but i maintain that the only logical Preceded by/Followed by for newspaper stories are those who are published directly before/after in newspapers. Also, not even the Temple of the Gods stories take place in direct sequence. There is obviously a big gap to the latest (last?) Sunday story, with several stories implied to take place in the meantime. The Temple of the Gods storyline goes from daily stories to Team Fantomen stories to a Sunday story. If we make a separate navigation template for Temple of the Gods stories it should be in addition to the existing templates, and not replace them. How about that compromise? Andreas (talk) 09:41, 8 December 2023 (CET)
- I'd like to add that one of the reasons we don't show which Team Fantomen stories were published chronologically before/after is that these stories are not necessarily taking place in the order they are published. The above example shows that three separate multipart storylines were mixed up! This is not only unlike newspaper stories but also most traditional US comic book stories from any publisher with any hero. A typical US comic book enlists a creative team for a longer run and they make stories that are set after each other. Team Fantomen has a different approach and the storyline of one story can be picked up many issues later; while other storylines have been published in between those parts. "Preceded by" and "Followed by" would only confuse those who haven't read these stories and don't understand why they should read "Diana's Crisis, Part 5: Night of the Phantoms" after "Temple of the Gods, Part 3: The Secret Sect" (which of course, they shouldn't!) Andreas (talk) 04:56, 4 December 2023 (CET)
- The "Preceded by" and "Followed by" in newspaper strip stories shows the stories that are chronologically published before and after, it has nothing to do with storyline connections (although the newpaper strip stories are implied to follow each other). If we would use this for Team Fantomen stories, it would not show other parts of the Temple of the Gods saga there, as they were published many issues apart. "Related stories" is the subheading used to show storyline connections, even when the stories are not published in direct sequence or even take place directly after each other. It's maybe not the best solution, but if we add "Preceded by" and "Followed by" to the comic book story template, it's not going to have the effect you want; the story preceding "Temple of the Gods, Part 3: The Secret Sect" would be "Jonathon Wild, Part 2: Sentenced to Hang" and the following story would be "Diana's Crisis, Part 5: Night of the Phantoms". "Heart of Darkness" has it's own template not because it's connected stories but because it was originally published as a separate comic title ("Fantomenlegender" instead of "Fantomen"). We could do something better for longer storylines such as Temple of the Gods or the Diana/Chatu series, but they both jumped between newspaper stories and comic book spinoff stories so they should keep their respective Newspaper story and Comic book story templates. And so far the solution is the subheading Related stories. Andreas (talk) 04:34, 4 December 2023 (CET)
- Even if it is "just" part of a bigger arc, it may be helpful to have a single reference page for each of those "bigger arcs". I would like to see a page with each Frew issue number and stories (a much bigger project, I know) and I think the multi-part stories would also be better off. After all, if the other "parts" are related, why not have them in "Preceded by" and "Followed by" and have a page with all of them? If they are not so closely related, why list them at all?
- I'm not entirely sure, but I think it's because Phantom legends/The Heart of Darkness is written as one, long continuous, story while the Temple of the Gods series are full stories that is "just" part of a bigger arc. --MiGi (talk) 07:33, 3 December 2023 (CET)
- I am not sure why that option isn't used for Egmont stories. "Related stories" isn't link, you can find it line before reprints. Delboj (talk) 12:26, 2 December 2023 (CET)
I have created a Magazinebox called MagazineboxArc, that might work for this type of stories (when they are confined to only Team Fantomen/Dailies/Sundays/etc, crossovers might need an additional (light?) one instead). I added Preceded by and Followed by with none as the default value and an overall heading ({{{StoryArc}}}, when applicable). What do you think? MiGi (talk) 09:27, 6 January 2024 (CET)
- I have added the MagazineboxArc to Death in the East End articles as an example. Will this work? One drawback is that if there are more that three parts in an arc you will only see the previous and subsequent parts, compared to the old way of presenting them. MiGi (talk) 07:01, 14 January 2024 (CET)
- I think that's not good solution. There it's already section "realated stories" and I think that's enough. Delboj (talk) 08:38, 14 January 2024 (CET)
- It is meant to be a replacement, if used. MiGi (talk) 08:40, 14 January 2024 (CET)
- Thank you MiGi. I think it is a better solution than putting them in related stories, or why include Preceding/Following for the Daily/Sunday stories? They can go in related stories too. I think the heading for Related stories is better used for references, to or from, not part of story arcs that fit in Preceding/Following. MiGi, I think you have found a working solution. Mars (talk) 01:38, 16 January 2024 (CET)
- It is meant to be a replacement, if used. MiGi (talk) 08:40, 14 January 2024 (CET)
- I think that's not good solution. There it's already section "realated stories" and I think that's enough. Delboj (talk) 08:38, 14 January 2024 (CET)
Detail in Appearances in Articles
This started with a question over whether or not "Africa" in The Whistleblower should be linked or should be excluded altogether. Other questions have been raised over what amount of detail is too much detail to include in Appearances in Articles. Mars having made lots of detailed contributions recently (November/December 2023), are they too detailed?
Should there be a limit or guide on what goes into Appearances or should it be included if it appears in the story?
I say this is an encyclopedia of the Phantom, if it is identified in a story, it should be included in the Article.
Mars (talk) 13:58, 3 December 2023 (CET)
- I would like to see what Andreas thinks about this. Delboj (talk) 14:45, 3 December 2023 (CET)
- We don't want to set a precedent that means that we will have to raise all of the thousands of story articles to a level that means too much work in order to be consistent. That's why we put a cap on the story summaries, that in some cases became almost complete short stories in text form. That is just too much work if we're going to be consistent across the board. In the case of appearances, i do agree with "if it is identified in a story, it should be included in the article" (although "seats on row 39" made me chuckle). We don't have to create linked articles for all levels though. Countries is a good level for linked articles, so no linked article for Africa or for Cape Town (that should be under the country of South Africa (location) instead). Cities and villages get articles if they are created for the Phantom comic, such as Mawitaan. Andreas (talk) 04:46, 4 December 2023 (CET)
- I would like to see what Andreas thinks about this. Delboj (talk) 14:45, 3 December 2023 (CET)
Cover variants
(Edit: original discussion in relation to The Phantom 1755 (Frew))
Should the Supanova Jam cover variant (currently in the issue box) also appear under the Cover variant heading? Mars (talk) 00:44, 3 January 2024 (CET)
- No. Delboj (talk) 09:47, 3 January 2024 (CET)
- Why not, Delboj? It is, after all, a variant cover!
- Your comments are most unhelpful. You don't need to say anything if you have nothing to contribute. Mars (talk) 00:19, 4 January 2024 (CET)
- As far as I know, in cover variants are only cover with same artwork, but in different language or in different colours, like in this case. Delboj (talk) 11:07, 4 January 2024 (CET)
- I understand now. Thank you for explaining to me. What is happening then with The Phantom 7 (Shakti Comics)? I can see why the different languages are there, but it has the English variant cover both in the issue box and under the heading? Why is that different? Mars (talk) 00:17, 5 January 2024 (CET)
- As far as I know, in cover variants are only cover with same artwork, but in different language or in different colours, like in this case. Delboj (talk) 11:07, 4 January 2024 (CET)