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Daughter of...

Has Julie only been mentioned as the daughter of the 17th Phantom in Lee Falk's stories? Even in her first appearance? Member 7 11:07, 3 March 2008 (CET)

Well... reading Lee's chronicle stories isn't the easiest :) He generally tend to not introduce his stories with "let me tell you a story about the 10th Phantom" etc, but rather with this happened to "my great-great-great grand father", "the Phantom 10 generations ago", "my grandfather 12x removed" etc. Combining this practice with the fact that between the 1940's and the 1970's the current Phantom sometimes is referred to as the 20th and sometimes the 21st makes it really difficult to say exactly which Phantom is appearing in a specific story. In "The Female Phantom", the original Julie story, the current Phantom tells Diana that the father of Kip and Julie was his "great-great grandfather", making Kip and Julie his "great-grandfather" and "great-great aunt".
Now - if we regard the current Phantom to be the 21st, this makes Julie and Kip the children of the 17th Phantom, Kip the 18th, and Julie the sister of the 18th Phantom. If this is the right way to read the story or not is a matter for discussion, of course. It's notable, though, that when Lee decided to fix the current Phantom as the 21st of the line, most ancestors, followed this fixation, i.e. when retelling stories about his grandfather or whatever, it was still attributed to the grandfather, even if the current Phantom now had changed, from the 20th to the 21st.
This is also the main reason why, if you try to put up a list of the Phantom wives, you will notice something of a displacement of one generation (Heloise is married to the 8th according to Falk, but the 7th according to TF, Natala to the 7th and the 8th, respectively).
Julie was, as far as I know, never mentioned by Falk in the comics again. However - she does appear in the first of the Avon novels, The Ghost Who Walks, also written by Lee Falk. Sadly I've only read the parts translated into Swedish, and I'm not sure of how much (if anything) was changed in the translation. Anyhow - in this story (as it appears in Swedish) Julie IS said to be the twin of the 17th Phantom, and the current Phantom is No. 21.
It appears that the Avon novel (or if it is Swedish translation) was very influential when Ulf Granberg put together the basis for the Team's chronicle stories. E.g. this is the first - maybe only - time that the 13th is said to be the one referred to as "the Runt" - years later causing the confusion regarding the Swedish translation of "The Fourth Son". Also - the one that founded the Jungle Patrol is the 6th, although most Falk stories from the mid-70s and on says it was the 7th. And - Julie is said to be the sister of the 17th.
I thought adding the Novel references to the article, but since I don't know if it's the original or the Swedish translation I would be referring to, I choosed not to do so.
So... well... It's not an easy question, as you see :) Pjär 12:49, 4 March 2008 (CET)
Well, I suspected it might be complicated :) But figuring out exactly when and where details like this has been given is to me very interesting. That Avon novel would sure be useful, like you I don't have it in English. Re. Julie, she makes a one-panel appearance in the beginning of "The Delta Pirates" as the 18th Phantom's sister. To me, that was the first time she wasn't mentioned as the sister of the 17th. I will scan this panel and add it ASAP. Member 7 12:58, 4 March 2008 (CET)
In "The Phantom Cowboy", in the Swedish translation in Fantomen Christmas Album 1997 at least, it is said that the 16th Phantom got twins. I am quite convinced that this was about the 16th Phantom in the original since he at one point says to mr Morgan in the Swedish translation that his great-grandfather was married to the sister of Jean Lafitte. Apparantly, it read grandfather in the original as a correction of the Phantom from the 13th to the 14th as the one who married Jeanette Lafitte, this according to a response in "Fantomen Talar" that I know for sure that I have read. Because there was no mentioning of that the Swedish translation had altered the Phantom in question, i.e. the 16th Phantom, I think it is reasonable to assume that the story really was about the 16th Phantom in the original. Karl MAN Obadja 16:32, 4 March 2008 (CET)
Yeah, you are right - "The Phantom Cowboy" is about the 16th Phantom in the original as well. And the same story also has Jeanette Lafitte married to the 14th Phantom. I'm not 100% sure that the original says that the 16th had twins, though, although it seems likely. Anyone who can check this, please do :) Pjär 17:09, 4 March 2008 (CET)
Julie delta.jpg
Here's the panel I mentioned... is this the only time Sy Barry has drawn Julie? Member 7 18:36, 4 March 2008 (CET)
I think that Falk have provided contradictary information, this image clearly shows that he once said Julie to be twin sister to the 18th Phantom. At the end in "The Phantom Cowboy", the Swedish translation, it is said that the 16th Phantom and Annie Morgan became very happy and got twins, like Kit and Heloise. (To whom the story was read) I do not think that Team Fantomen would have added this detail if it was not in the original, though I might be mistaken. Karl MAN Obadja 22:31, 4 March 2008 (CET)